Hackers claim break-in to Palin's e-mail account

[karmagirl]

So what is your point talking about Meth and those statistics that you brough up about the Matinuska VAlley which Wasilla is only a small part of?

Really?

Because, for the final time, YOU said, and I quote "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now."

Wasilla is part of, as you admit, the meth capital of Alaska. It's NOT, for that reason along with others, just like where I live now. Oh, and Wasilla is not only a "small part of" that area, it's THE LARGEST part, something you should know if you've ever been there as you claim.

"Wasilla is a city in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough in the U.S. state of Alaska. As of the 2000 census, the population of the city was 5,470. The 2005 estimate gives the city a population of 8,471, making it the largest city in the borough. "

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-jobs ... asilla,+AK

In addition, I'm not making assumptions about anybody. I can't believe that we are even talking about this. All I said is that Wasilla is a town very much like any mid-western town (anywhere U.S.A.) and I get this circle jerk argument with you. Fine, Wasilla is nothing like any mid-western town. You are right, I am wrong. You live in the ghetto and Wasilla is not like your ghetto, or Cherry Hills and Wasilla is not like Cherry Hills. But of all the people actually posting about this subject, I'm the only one who has ever actually BEEN to Wasilla.

When I said that Wasilla is like any town that you or I live in I was speaking METAPHORICALLY! I know, a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend.

LOL, whatever. You make the generalizing assumption that we all live in a place just like Wasilla, which I and others have shown is incorrect. Denver is not very much like Wasilla other than in the basic ways that all cities can be compared to - They are cities. People live there. People work there. If that's your point, it isn't much of one. But if you look at the two cities specifically, they're not very similar at all, which is my point. When you make assumptions as you did, you tend to be wrong. Especially when you're assumption now involves most Americans.

How was your statement metaphorical? Since you don't seem to know what a metaphor is, let me help:

American Heritage Dictionary - met·a·phor
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison

So which word or phrase in "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now" meets the criteria to make what you said a metaphor?

Really, I don't want to keep arguing this, but you keep digging a deeper and deeper hole of fail. Instead of continuously trying to make up new excuses as to what you "really" meant, why not just admit it's wrong to make assumptions about people you don't know and that Denver is not just like Wasilla? Or, perhaps you can provide the specifics that show how Denver (population 588,000, metro area population 2.5 million, 50% caucasion, unemployment rate of 3.8% (one of the lowest in the US) is just like Wasilla (population 8500, 85% caucasion, unemployment rate of 11% (6% is the national average))?

[pftp]

So what is your point talking about Meth and those statistics that you brough up about the Matinuska VAlley which Wasilla is only a small part of?

Really?

Because, for the final time, YOU said, and I quote "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now."

Wasilla is part of, as you admit, the meth capital of Alaska. It's NOT, for that reason along with others, just like where I live now. Oh, and Wasilla is not only a "small part of" that area, it's THE LARGEST part, something you should know if you've ever been there as you claim.

"Wasilla is a city in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough in the U.S. state of Alaska. As of the 2000 census, the population of the city was 5,470. The 2005 estimate gives the city a population of 8,471, making it the largest city in the borough. "

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-jobs ... asilla,+AK

In addition, I'm not making assumptions about anybody. I can't believe that we are even talking about this. All I said is that Wasilla is a town very much like any mid-western town (anywhere U.S.A.) and I get this circle jerk argument with you. Fine, Wasilla is nothing like any mid-western town. You are right, I am wrong. You live in the ghetto and Wasilla is not like your ghetto, or Cherry Hills and Wasilla is not like Cherry Hills. But of all the people actually posting about this subject, I'm the only one who has ever actually BEEN to Wasilla.

When I said that Wasilla is like any town that you or I live in I was speaking METAPHORICALLY! I know, a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend.

LOL, whatever. You make the generalizing assumption that we all live in a place just like Wasilla, which I and others have shown is incorrect. Denver is not very much like Wasilla other than in the basic ways that all cities can be compared to - They are cities. People live there. People work there. If that's your point, it isn't much of one. But if you look at the two cities specifically, they're not very similar at all, which is my point. When you make assumptions as you did, you tend to be wrong. Especially when you're assumption now involves most Americans.

How was your statement metaphorical? Since you don't seem to know what a metaphor is, let me help:

American Heritage Dictionary - met·a·phor
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison

So which word or phrase in "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now" meets the criteria to make what you said a metaphor?

Really, I don't want to keep arguing this, but you keep digging a deeper and deeper hole of fail. Instead of continuously trying to make up new excuses as to what you "really" meant, why not just admit it's wrong to make assumptions about people you don't know and that Denver is not just like Wasilla? Or, perhaps you can provide the specifics that show how Denver (population 588,000, metro area population 2.5 million, 50% caucasion, unemployment rate of 3.8% (one of the lowest in the US) is just like Wasilla (population 8500, 85% caucasion, unemployment rate of 11% (6% is the national average))?

You miss my point and didn't read what I wrote in my last post to Rodentia. I was speaking metaporically and in a general way. Also 60,000 live in the Mat-Su Valley, yes Wasilla is the largest town in the Valley, but it would be incorrect to say that 8,000 out of 60,000 is MOST of the Mat-Su Borough. I guess you will get into the definition of what MOST means now. That is the problem when you try to get a picture of a place by looking at statistics. If you don't know what the statistics mean they are useless to you.

Also, I said that Wasilla is no where near any kind of place where you are from Karmagirl. It couldn't be. So I agreed with you on that.

Wasilla is a place (as you have 'educated us on) choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate.

Thank you for all of your research into the town of Wasilla. Your hours of diilligent study has been very helpful to me as I didn't know all of this stuff that you have let us know about. All I can say is thank you.

[Rodentia]

You miss my point and didn't read what I wrote in my last post to Rodentia. I was speaking metaporically and in a general way. In addition, it is good practice that when a person puts forward statistics to cite your sources, so we can know the year etc.

Also, I said that Wasilla is no where near any kind of place where you are from Karmagirl. It couldn't be. So I agreed with you on that.

Wasilla is a place (as you have 'educated us on) choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate.

Thank you for all of your research into the town of Wasilla. Your hours of diilligent study has been very helpful to me as I didn't know all of this stuff that you have let us know about. All I can say is thank you.

Since you are already having a crappy day, let me add a bit.
What you were saying was more figurative or even poetic-license than metaphorical.
Unless of course you are posing Wasilla as a metaphor for hopelessness

There.

[pftp]

You miss my point and didn't read what I wrote in my last post to Rodentia. I was speaking metaporically and in a general way. In addition, it is good practice that when a person puts forward statistics to cite your sources, so we can know the year etc.

Also, I said that Wasilla is no where near any kind of place where you are from Karmagirl. It couldn't be. So I agreed with you on that.

Wasilla is a place (as you have 'educated us on) choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as Karma girl pointed out in her last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate.

Thank you for all of your research into the town of Wasilla. Your hours of diilligent study has been very helpful to me as I didn't know all of this stuff that you have let us know about. All I can say is thank you.

Since you are already having a crappy day, let me add a bit.
What you were saying was more figurative or even poetic-license than metaphorical.
Unless of course you are posing Wasilla as a metaphor for hopelessness

There.

I'm not having a crappy day but fine, I was speaking "figuratively". I am also happy to NOW know that Wasilla is a place choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as Karmagirl pointed out in her last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate. I didn't know all of this and I am sorry that I made such a large mistake when I was talking about what I knew Wasilla to be about. I guess the DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS HERE.

Thank you guys. Wasilla is a sh.t hole.

[Rodentia]

… a place choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate

Just checking, did you mean “you pointed out” literally, figuratively, or metaphorically?
‘cause I didn’t post that, Tasha did.

[pftp]

… a place choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate

Just checking, did you mean “you pointed out” literally, figuratively, or metaphorically?
‘cause I didn’t post that, Tasha did.

I had cut and pasted that and edited it to mean Karmagirl.

[karmagirl]

So what is your point talking about Meth and those statistics that you brough up about the Matinuska VAlley which Wasilla is only a small part of?

Really?

Because, for the final time, YOU said, and I quote "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now."

Wasilla is part of, as you admit, the meth capital of Alaska. It's NOT, for that reason along with others, just like where I live now. Oh, and Wasilla is not only a "small part of" that area, it's THE LARGEST part, something you should know if you've ever been there as you claim.

"Wasilla is a city in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough in the U.S. state of Alaska. As of the 2000 census, the population of the city was 5,470. The 2005 estimate gives the city a population of 8,471, making it the largest city in the borough. "

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-jobs ... asilla,+AK

In addition, I'm not making assumptions about anybody. I can't believe that we are even talking about this. All I said is that Wasilla is a town very much like any mid-western town (anywhere U.S.A.) and I get this circle jerk argument with you. Fine, Wasilla is nothing like any mid-western town. You are right, I am wrong. You live in the ghetto and Wasilla is not like your ghetto, or Cherry Hills and Wasilla is not like Cherry Hills. But of all the people actually posting about this subject, I'm the only one who has ever actually BEEN to Wasilla.

When I said that Wasilla is like any town that you or I live in I was speaking METAPHORICALLY! I know, a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend.

LOL, whatever. You make the generalizing assumption that we all live in a place just like Wasilla, which I and others have shown is incorrect. Denver is not very much like Wasilla other than in the basic ways that all cities can be compared to - They are cities. People live there. People work there. If that's your point, it isn't much of one. But if you look at the two cities specifically, they're not very similar at all, which is my point. When you make assumptions as you did, you tend to be wrong. Especially when you're assumption now involves most Americans.

How was your statement metaphorical? Since you don't seem to know what a metaphor is, let me help:

American Heritage Dictionary - met·a·phor
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison

So which word or phrase in "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now" meets the criteria to make what you said a metaphor?

Really, I don't want to keep arguing this, but you keep digging a deeper and deeper hole of fail. Instead of continuously trying to make up new excuses as to what you "really" meant, why not just admit it's wrong to make assumptions about people you don't know and that Denver is not just like Wasilla? Or, perhaps you can provide the specifics that show how Denver (population 588,000, metro area population 2.5 million, 50% caucasion, unemployment rate of 3.8% (one of the lowest in the US) is just like Wasilla (population 8500, 85% caucasion, unemployment rate of 11% (6% is the national average))?

You miss my point and didn't read what I wrote in my last post to Rodentia. I was speaking metaporically and in a general way. Also 60,000 live in the Mat-Su Valley, yes Wasilla is the largest town in the Valley, but it would be incorrect to say that 8,000 out of 60,000 is MOST of the Mat-Su Borough. I guess you will get into the definition of what MOST means now. That is the problem when you try to get a picture of a place by looking at statistics. If you don't know what the statistics mean they are useless to you.

Also, I said that Wasilla is no where near any kind of place where you are from Karmagirl. It couldn't be. So I agreed with you on that.

Wasilla is a place (as you have 'educated us on) choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate.

Thank you for all of your research into the town of Wasilla. Your hours of diilligent study has been very helpful to me as I didn't know all of this stuff that you have let us know about. All I can say is thank you.

You keep using "metaphorically' but you don't seem to understand what it means. You made an assumption, that's all. You're assumption was incorrect, that's all.

And I never said any of that stuff about Wasilla that you claim I did. I presented the facts. Seriously, we all know your assumption was incorrect, but you don't need to take your anger about that out on me and pretend like I said things I never said.

So thank for you admitting that Wasilla is NOT like where I, or many Americans live. Now no more assumptions, ok?

I did make a mistake when I said Wasilla was the biggest part of it's borough, it is only the biggest city there. Thanks for keeping me honest as well.

And you're welcome for the facts. They finally put an end to your ridiculous assumption about us all. See what a few facts can accomplish in a thread? It's amazing.

[pftp]

So what is your point talking about Meth and those statistics that you brough up about the Matinuska VAlley which Wasilla is only a small part of?

Really?

Because, for the final time, YOU said, and I quote "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now."

Wasilla is part of, as you admit, the meth capital of Alaska. It's NOT, for that reason along with others, just like where I live now. Oh, and Wasilla is not only a "small part of" that area, it's THE LARGEST part, something you should know if you've ever been there as you claim.

"Wasilla is a city in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough in the U.S. state of Alaska. As of the 2000 census, the population of the city was 5,470. The 2005 estimate gives the city a population of 8,471, making it the largest city in the borough. "

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-jobs ... asilla,+AK

In addition, I'm not making assumptions about anybody. I can't believe that we are even talking about this. All I said is that Wasilla is a town very much like any mid-western town (anywhere U.S.A.) and I get this circle jerk argument with you. Fine, Wasilla is nothing like any mid-western town. You are right, I am wrong. You live in the ghetto and Wasilla is not like your ghetto, or Cherry Hills and Wasilla is not like Cherry Hills. But of all the people actually posting about this subject, I'm the only one who has ever actually BEEN to Wasilla.

When I said that Wasilla is like any town that you or I live in I was speaking METAPHORICALLY! I know, a concept that is difficult for you to comprehend.

LOL, whatever. You make the generalizing assumption that we all live in a place just like Wasilla, which I and others have shown is incorrect. Denver is not very much like Wasilla other than in the basic ways that all cities can be compared to - They are cities. People live there. People work there. If that's your point, it isn't much of one. But if you look at the two cities specifically, they're not very similar at all, which is my point. When you make assumptions as you did, you tend to be wrong. Especially when you're assumption now involves most Americans.

How was your statement metaphorical? Since you don't seem to know what a metaphor is, let me help:

American Heritage Dictionary - met·a·phor
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison

So which word or phrase in "I can assure you that it (Wasilla, AK) is just a place where people like you or me live now" meets the criteria to make what you said a metaphor?

Really, I don't want to keep arguing this, but you keep digging a deeper and deeper hole of fail. Instead of continuously trying to make up new excuses as to what you "really" meant, why not just admit it's wrong to make assumptions about people you don't know and that Denver is not just like Wasilla? Or, perhaps you can provide the specifics that show how Denver (population 588,000, metro area population 2.5 million, 50% caucasion, unemployment rate of 3.8% (one of the lowest in the US) is just like Wasilla (population 8500, 85% caucasion, unemployment rate of 11% (6% is the national average))?

You miss my point and didn't read what I wrote in my last post to Rodentia. I was speaking metaporically and in a general way. Also 60,000 live in the Mat-Su Valley, yes Wasilla is the largest town in the Valley, but it would be incorrect to say that 8,000 out of 60,000 is MOST of the Mat-Su Borough. I guess you will get into the definition of what MOST means now. That is the problem when you try to get a picture of a place by looking at statistics. If you don't know what the statistics mean they are useless to you.

Also, I said that Wasilla is no where near any kind of place where you are from Karmagirl. It couldn't be. So I agreed with you on that.

Wasilla is a place (as you have 'educated us on) choc full of white, red neck, right wing, methamphetamine addicted, religious zealots whom, as you pointed out in your last post, appear to like to sit around on their butts all day not working because of the apparent high unemployment rate.

Thank you for all of your research into the town of Wasilla. Your hours of diilligent study has been very helpful to me as I didn't know all of this stuff that you have let us know about. All I can say is thank you.

You keep using "metaphorically' but you don't seem to understand what it means. You made an assumption, that's all. You're assumption was incorrect, that's all.

And I never said any of that stuff about Wasilla that you claim I did. I presented the facts. Seriously, we all know your assumption was incorrect, but you don't need to take your anger about that out on me and pretend like I said things I never said.

So thank for you admitting that Wasilla is NOT like where I, or many Americans live. Now no more assumptions, ok?

I did make a mistake when I said Wasilla was the biggest part of it's borough, it is only the biggest city there. Thanks for keeping me honest as well.

And you're welcome for the facts. They finally put an end to your ridiculous assumption about us all. See what a few facts can accomplish in a thread? It's amazing.

You are so smart Karmagirl. Your other so-called "facts" are also riddled with errors, but I am too tired of this subject that I don't care to discuss it any longer. But to wet your appetite with one of the errors, you were using statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley with respect to methampetamine usage. As I pointed out that Wasilla is only 8,000 people out of approximately 60,000 people that it was unfair to characterize Wasilla as being a neighborhood of Meth-heads, based on statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley, which I know is not like your neighborhood that as you point out to us is not a neighborhood of meth-heads. There are others but I am so tired...........

[karmagirl]

You are so smart Karmagirl.

I just like to think I'm well educated, and when I know I don't know something, I take the time to learn about it. Anyone can do it. Especially when you have the internet. It's a wealth of knowledge once you get through all the crap.

Your other so-called "facts" are also riddled with errors, but I am too tired of this subject that I don't care to discuss it any longer. But to wet your appetite with one of the errors, you were using statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley with respect to methampetamine usage. As I pointed out that Wasilla is only 8,000 people out of approximately 60,000 people that it was unfair to characterize Wasilla as being a neighborhood of Meth-heads, based on statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley, which I know is not like your neighborhood that as you point out to us is not a neighborhood of meth-heads. There are others but I am so tired...........

And I distinctly said, in my first post, "The Matanuska-Susitna area is the methamphetamine capital of Alaska, according to Alaska State Troopers". It's just easier to type Wasilla from that point as it is a smaller name and the biggest city in that area. Sorry if that confused you. If you would have re-read my original post without trying to argue that Denver is just like Wasilla we probably wouldn't be where we are now.

And if you feel the Alaska State troopers are lying, take it up with them, not me.

[pftp]

You are so smart Karmagirl.

I just like to think I'm well educated, and when I know I don't know something, I take the time to learn about it. Anyone can do it. Especially when you have the internet. It's a wealth of knowledge once you get through all the ****.

Your other so-called "facts" are also riddled with errors, but I am too tired of this subject that I don't care to discuss it any longer. But to wet your appetite with one of the errors, you were using statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley with respect to methampetamine usage. As I pointed out that Wasilla is only 8,000 people out of approximately 60,000 people that it was unfair to characterize Wasilla as being a neighborhood of Meth-heads, based on statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley, which I know is not like your neighborhood that as you point out to us is not a neighborhood of meth-heads. There are others but I am so tired...........

And I distinctly said, in my first post, "The Matanuska-Susitna area is the methamphetamine capital of Alaska, according to Alaska State Troopers". It's just easier to type Wasilla from that point as it is a smaller name and the biggest city in that area. Sorry if that confused you. If you would have re-read my original post without trying to argue that Denver is just like Wasilla we probably wouldn't be where we are now.

And if you feel the Alaska State troopers are lying, take it up with them, not me.

Two things and then I am done.
1. You used statistics for the entire Matinuska Valley and applied them to Wasilla without breaking down where the meth busts were located or the percentage of usage depending upon what town or part of the Valley that you lived. You made this mistake because you don't know the lay of the land, where Wasilla sits with respect to that Valley or even what it looks like. In other words, you are full of sh.t

2. I never said that Wasilla is like Denver. I said that Wasilla is like where you and I come from. I made a mistake in thinking that people like you would take me literally. What I should have said is THE PEOPLE OF WASILLA ARE LIKE YOU AND I....there are people from many walks of life that live there and their daily concerns are exactly the same as ours.

[denvermark]

I thought this topic was supposed to be about hacking and Government Officals using private email ( which is ILLEGAL btw) to hide facts from the public. Not about meth and small towns. How interesting.

Ok -- back to topic at hand. I see the hacker as conducing a form of FREEDOM OF INFORMATION request

Oh and BTW -- remember that the Bush Admin somehow "lost" 10 Million emails -- yea -- I know BS when I smell it. Seems Caribou Barbie is doing the same thing by sidestepping the legal process

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/0 ... 75244.html

[windasman]

................Let me try this another way.

Unauthorised hacking of a private email account is a crime, plain and simple, and it is the same crime whether it is of Mr.Joe Soap’s account or Ms.Jane Doe’s.
The use of a private unsecured and unarchived email account ranges from insignificant to a national crisis depending primarily on who is using the account and what is being transmitted across it.
Mr. Joe Soap the janitor sending mail on company time via Yahoo to his wife about buying onions for dinner is insignificant, and his employer might raise one eyebrow about one millimetre.
Ms.Jane Doe the research scientist sending product formulations to a coworker sitting next to her via her Yahoo account is an urgent and palpable risk, and her employer could severely reprimand or fire her for cause, and governance standards suggests they should immediately issue a memo on this practice and make sure nobody else is doing it.
Mr. Jim Beam the head of NSA, Ms. Betty Crocker the head of FBI or Mr. Pete Pumpernickel PotUS should absolutely, positively never be transmitting anything whatsoever across a private unsecured and unarchived email account unless it is scrutinized six ways to Sunday for security implications.

Hacking these accounts should be no more of a crime than Joe Soap’s
Hacking Jim, Betty, or Pete’s secured government email accounts would be a whole other kind of federal crime, and would get serious attention from an alphabet soup of agencies and attract some serious jail time.

I think you are (1) mixing these two up, (2) being overly defensive about Sarah Palin, (3) treating this purely as a party-political issue, (4) paying lip-service to the national-security issue

Rodent,
I agree, this is why I think hate crimes are a travesty. Whoever it is done to doesn't matter, it is what is done to them! Making it more of a crime for some is anti-American and implies that some people are worth more than others.

Sorry for the bunny trail, but it's a sore subject with me, and your example is a good one. That said, I don't think it's smart to say this was or wasn't politically motivated. We don't know. But no matter what, the kid needs serious punishment. This isn't about being overly defensive about Palin either, unless you would say that taking offense at Obama's(notice not "Obama and") family being correctly labeled as Muslim.
Peace.

[windasman]

Metaphors only work to the degree that they represent factual associations.

What factual associations were you trying to limn?
That Wasilla has people, just like other places?
That there are bathrooms and trees?
That a person living in Wasilla would be familiar with the ebb and flow of life in Colorado Springs and Boulder?
That they have the same concerns?
The same annual income?
The same religious views?
What?

If you are going to be so precise, then there really is no "Anytown, USA." I really think you're being unfairly facetious on this issue; I don't think for a moment that you really believed the poster was saying it is exactly like any other city, it is a figure of speech, plain and simple. If we are to be so particular in the future, we will again spend another full page arguing about something along the lines of whether being the meth capital of a state makes the area so different from other cities. I have no doubt that Tasha and you would not be so fired up about it if we were to talk about Joe Biden being from the meth capital of his state. So what? I still consider his city to be an average city.

There has also been undue attention paid to slips of the tongue by Palin, and none paid to Biden. He claimed that FDR went on tv at the beginning of the Great Depression. Two slips in one sentence, but we're more worried about Palin and comments about Russia. Yeah, double standard. I just felt the need to mention this so I can also be considered to be "overly defensive" of Palin.
Peace.

[windasman]

I thought this topic was supposed to be about hacking and Government Officals using private email ( which is ILLEGAL btw) to hide facts from the public. Not about meth and small towns. How interesting.

No, actually, this is a topic about someone breaking the law, hacking into someone's email account. Sorry, you must have it confused with some other topic.

Ok -- back to topic at hand. I see the hacker as conduc[t?]ing a form of FREEDOM OF INFORMATION request

Ok, let's see what the courts have to say about that-humorous observation though

Oh and BTW -- remember that the Bush Admin somehow "lost" 10 Million emails -- yea -- I know BS when I smell it. Seems Caribou Barbie is doing the same thing by sidestepping the legal process

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/0 ... 75244.html

Maybe they used the same software to "back up" that the DPO does?
You really quoted the Huffington Post as a source? o..k.. But if I would quote FoxNews, there would be outrage at the "biased" source. Doesn't matter that they kick the bu++s of all other cable news outlets who have been around longer. But hey, you quote whoever you want I guess...it's a free country-for those who qoute left wing sources.
Of course, there will be those who say "debate the facts, not the source". But that's what I've been saying all along to anyone who refuses to address anything by "FauxNews". Sorry-I know-another tangent, but another annoyance in my list of pet peeves about posters on this site.
Peace.

[Rodentia]

Kenny said

If you are going to be so precise, then there really is no "Anytown, USA." I really think you're being unfairly facetious on this issue; I don't think for a moment that you really believed the poster was saying it is exactly like any other city, it is a figure of speech, plain and simple.

Of course it was a figure of speech, and people were reacting to the implication of what he said - the question is what parallel was he drawing and what was his message?

Was he saying that deep down we are all just people and have similar fears and aspirations, and perhaps hint that we should all try to get along and be sensitive to each other as fellow humans?
Was he restricting it to us all being fellow Americans and that we all share a common way of life and national character and values to some extent different to other countries in some significant way?

When asked he didn’t elaborate on the message, he dug in and defended the geographical place, and not a metaphor.
So no, I don’t believe it facetious to attack the argument and demand he clarify what he meant.
Maybe you would like to take over and offer a narrative that describes how we are one with Wasilla and shows those threads of connection in more focus?

There has also been undue attention paid to slips of the tongue by Palin, and none paid to Biden. He claimed that FDR went on tv at the beginning of the Great Depression. Two slips in one sentence, but we're more worried about Palin and comments about Russia. Yeah, double standard. I just felt the need to mention this so I can also be considered to be "overly defensive" of Palin

Undue attention paid by whom?

I am interested in your example though, do you feel that some laxity in recall over the history of TV and dates served by past presidents is a crucial component of a VPs repertoire, compared say, to a grasp of the abilities and intentions of Russia?

Lets say for sake of argument that Biden is a complete duffer at remembering when any previous president served and has only the very vaguest idea of when TV or the talkies came about. Would that be a great impediment as a VP, and would it concern us as to what other flaws it hinted at?
I certainly view his lack of knowledge of the history of technology as worrisome, but to be frank, even if he had zero knowledge of when past presidents served, it would worry me not one iota.
So I am suddenly very curious about what other aspects of science and technology he is a bit weak on, and I urgently want to see some debates in which he spars over science, and I want to see what he has said or written about science. I am very nervous about the prospect of a scientifically-illiterate VP.

How about foreign relations?
A VP who was not highly skilled or at least highly experienced in foreign relations would worry me a great deal, so I want to know how Palin would fill that hole in her repertoire. Instead of showing signs of that, she instead repeatedly offers a joke about being able to see Russia on a clear day. Not a very auspicious move, is she going to joke her way through everything and is this how we will be treated every time?

I am happy to further discuss the candidates and where they stand on science, just say if you want to engage. Maybe we can start with why none of the candidates wanted to be part of the Science Debate 2008 and instead all went to faith sessions. The best the scientific community could get was prepared responses to a series of 14 specific questions regarding science by the two remaining candidates, neither of which fill me with any sense that their campaigns have more than a rudimentary grasp of science issues.

If this is the best they can do even with months of advance notice and a full team providing the answers, then colour me substantially underwhelmed.

[concerned in Denver]

I am happy to further discuss the candidates and where they stand on science, just say if you want to engage. Maybe we can start with why none of the candidates wanted to be part of the Science Debate 2008 and instead all went to faith sessions. The best the scientific community could get was prepared responses to a series of 14 specific questions regarding science by the two remaining candidates, neither of which fill me with any sense that their campaigns have more than a rudimentary grasp of science issues.

If this is the best they can do even with months of advance notice and a full team providing the answers, then colour me substantially underwhelmed.

In general, I agree with you, but I have to say that I don't expect any of the candidates to be an expert in any of the science fields. Obama is a lawyer, and McCain is a soldier and career politician. I don't think we can expect from any of them to understand, for example, the intricacies of the Higgs field. And isn't it understandable that the candidates use the platform they are offered for more campaigning?
I actually did not go through all the answers with a fine-toothed comb. After all, what you get there is what some science advisers think is the best for the respective campaign, not necessarily what the candidates think or know. I think what you can get from the answers is a general impression on where the two sides stand, not necessarily specific details.
I did find it instructive, though, to see that McCain thinks of Science mostly in terms of corporations, where the science might benefit from tax incentives, while Obama seems to prefer the academic approach. This becomes clear when McCain says that science has to address the national issues, while Obama says that research often produces good results that benefit everybody without actually looking for those specific results. To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Obama, who has some solid academic experience, Science is an academic matter. McCain, who is a soldier, sees science as a tool for national defense, and he actually says so.
In the end, to me, the McCain approach is inferior as it intends to a large part to direct research to corporations and to pre-defined needs (military). Science, in my book, must have the freedom to go off on a tangent and explore areas that were not anticipated. That is best done in University settings, not in corporate Research labs (with the exception of a few, like IBM or Bell Labs).
I think that the Dems position on science is more to what I like. Add to that the limits on science we have seen under the current government (stem cell research, etc.), my choice on this matter is clear. I'd like to see science and everything that leads up to it (education) on much stronger footing still, but that won't go all in once. A long journey begins with the first step. I see Obama as a step forward (from the current situation), McCain as no movement, or a step backwards.

[karmagirl]

Kenny said

If you are going to be so precise, then there really is no "Anytown, USA." I really think you're being unfairly facetious on this issue; I don't think for a moment that you really believed the poster was saying it is exactly like any other city, it is a figure of speech, plain and simple.

Of course it was a figure of speech, and people were reacting to the implication of what he said - the question is what parallel was he drawing and what was his message?

Was he saying that deep down we are all just people and have similar fears and aspirations, and perhaps hint that we should all try to get along and be sensitive to each other as fellow humans?
Was he restricting it to us all being fellow Americans and that we all share a common way of life and national character and values to some extent different to other countries in some significant way?

When asked he didn’t elaborate on the message, he dug in and defended the geographical place, and not a metaphor.
So no, I don’t believe it facetious to attack the argument and demand he clarify what he meant.
Maybe you would like to take over and offer a narrative that describes how we are one with Wasilla and shows those threads of connection in more focus?

Thanks again, it's been a long weekend but I see pftp is still up to his old assumptions. So now it's "I said that Wasilla is like where you and I come from", yet he doesn't know where I come from, so how can he know that Wasilla is like it? You'd think after pages of posts showing someone how wrong they are when they make assumptions they would NOT try to make another one. Some people never learn...too funny.

Also, pftp, it's not that hard to find a map of the Wasilla area. Here's one from Google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... 740601&z=8

Perhaps it's time for you to give up this stupid fight about your incorrect assumptions about me so we can move on? Or would you like to show me how the city I grew up in is like Wasilla? It should be entertaining.

[pftp]

Kenny said

If you are going to be so precise, then there really is no "Anytown, USA." I really think you're being unfairly facetious on this issue; I don't think for a moment that you really believed the poster was saying it is exactly like any other city, it is a figure of speech, plain and simple.

Of course it was a figure of speech, and people were reacting to the implication of what he said - the question is what parallel was he drawing and what was his message?

Was he saying that deep down we are all just people and have similar fears and aspirations, and perhaps hint that we should all try to get along and be sensitive to each other as fellow humans?
Was he restricting it to us all being fellow Americans and that we all share a common way of life and national character and values to some extent different to other countries in some significant way?

When asked he didn’t elaborate on the message, he dug in and defended the geographical place, and not a metaphor.
So no, I don’t believe it facetious to attack the argument and demand he clarify what he meant.
Maybe you would like to take over and offer a narrative that describes how we are one with Wasilla and shows those threads of connection in more focus?

Thanks again, it's been a long weekend but I see pftp is still up to his old assumptions. So now it's "I said that Wasilla is like where you and I come from", yet he doesn't know where I come from, so how can he know that Wasilla is like it? You'd think after pages of posts showing someone how wrong they are when they make assumptions they would NOT try to make another one. Some people never learn...too funny.

Also, pftp, it's not that hard to find a map of the Wasilla area. Here's one from Google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... 740601&z=8

Perhaps it's time for you to give up this stupid fight about your incorrect assumptions about me so we can move on? Or would you like to show me how the city I grew up in is like Wasilla? It should be entertaining.

I gave it up several days ago.

[karmagirl]

I gave it up several days ago.

I wish that were true. Does this mean you're FINALLY apologizing for making assumptions about me and we can put an end to this ridiculous conversation and get back on topic?

About fricken' time. That's all I wanted. I will not let lies stand. Thanks

[pftp]

I gave it up several days ago.

I wish that were true. Does this mean you're FINALLY apologizing for making assumptions about me and we can put an end to this ridiculous conversation and get back on topic?

About fricken' time. That's all I wanted. I will not let lies stand. Thanks

Why would I apologize to you?. I am sticking to what I was originally trying to say. Have you ever heard of the saying "agree to disagree"? I have let the matter go, doing my best to explain what I meant, and you can either accept or reject. It sounds like you reject. THAT IS O.K.

What is it about your narcissistic personality that will not allow you to let sleeping dogs lie? Why would you want to keep going round after round after round with nothing to accomplish? The economy is melting around us, yet you feel the need to discuss inanities in your argumentative style of "splitting hairs".